31 October 2011

Commenting on the Obvious

As many of you know I troll the religious radio shows because I am always looking for good blog fodder, and have a curiousity about what is riling up, enraging or captivating Christians. Such radio is almost always evangelical, Baptist, anti-science, and anti-reason. I recently found a local Catholic radio station that managed to convince me that my earlier opinion of Catholics, that they were a more progressive sect of Christianity was wholly mistaken or, failing that, more mistaken than I had originally thought. This really shouldn't have come as a surprise to me, I did attend Catholic School as a kid, and nothing that happened there ever made me think of the Roman Catholic Church was any kind of bastion of free inquiry or rationalism. Oh well, at least I didn't get raped by the priest or beaten by nuns. Though the only nun I ever knew, Sister Annette (a Catholic cyborg I think whose emotion chips were set to off), lamented, and seriously, that she could no longer hit us with rulers. She was only a fixture at Seton Catholic School for one year when I was there. Which was too bad because she was such a class act.
But I digress......

While listening to Catholic radio, some kind of call in show, a caller wonders if the Pope has ever said that the Church's behavior, specifically the burning of heretics, witches and Protestants among others was wrong. The host hemmed and hawed about, didn't really offer a clear answer and then said that Pope John Paul II had apologized for any sin the Church had committed, and hoped people who had been offended and wronged by that sin would forgive the Church. The host, and apparently the Pope, had some trouble saying that burning people with whom you disagree is the wrong way to go.
Caller: So the Pope hasn't said that burning people was wrong, and hasn't apologized for trying to supress differing opinion? [paraphrase by me]
Host: The pope has apologized for any sin the Church has committed. [paraphrase by me]
Caller: So no it hasn't said those actions were wrong and hasn't apologized for them. Then I have to ask what has the Pope specifically said about the burning of Wycliffe? [more paraphrase by me]

A little backstory is probably in order. Wycliffe, who was strong opponent of Papal authority, translated the bible (or he and his acolytes did it together) into vernacular English, and for this and other crimes he was burned. Well his exhumed bones were burned. He had died 31 years before being branded a heretic by the Council of Constance. I think you will agree, they sure showed him. back to the call already in progress....

The host of the show didn't seem to know if the Pope has said anything specific about the bizarre case of Wycliffe's pointless rapid oxidation. And the caller never mentioned why it was a big deal to him that the Council had a dead man burned 31 years after his death. Wycliffe though is important to students of Protestant history so it makes sense to me now that I have done a bit more reading. Burning long dead people matters a lot less to me than burning living heretics. So to me in the annals of religiously inspired batshit crazy this is really pretty mild.

What really blew my mind though was the way the host attempted to get the Church off the hook for its tawdry and bizarre desecration of Wycliffe's remains. First he began to suggest that Wycliffe wasn't really all that great a scholar, and his translation was absolutely horrible. "So there is a lot you maybe don't know about Wycliffe that sheds light on why the Church did what it did." I'm not making this up. The logic of the host seemed to suggest Wycliffe published a shabby translation of the bible (according to later scholars) so whatever the Church did was probably okay. I've heard Catholic scholars make similar noises when you bring up the Church's behavior toward Galileo. Of Galileo these scholars and lay defenders of Rome will say that the science of the day was on the Pope's side so they were right to oppose Galileo's hypothesis, as if Galileo's interrogators were simply journal referees sending his paper back for revision and correction, and not presenting him with a false choice (torture or recantation).

This is an old dodge by the Roman Catholic Church. It is loath to state specifically which actions in the past it has done were wrong (at least in many of the halls of leadership), and simply attempts to diffuse the legitimate accusations, charges with this soft non-admission, non-apology:
The Church apologizes for any sins it has in the past committed, and hope that anyone who has been offended by them will kindly forgive the one true Church, sincerely yours
-The Vicar of Christ on Earth, Pope Benedict


I think this maneuver is performed because ultimately the Church fathers don't really think that the Roman Catholic Church has done much wrong and that it probably views any admission of wrong doing damaging to its claims of ultimate authority. The Pope after all is infallible.

Labels: ,

7 Comments:

At 5:38 PM , Blogger Coach Factory said...

longchamp outlet online, michael kors outlet online, burberry outlet online, jordan shoes, ray ban outlet, christian louboutin shoes, gucci handbags, louboutin shoes, coach outlet, louis vuitton outlet online, nike shoes, michael kors outlet online, coach purses, red bottom shoes, louis vuitton outlet, michael kors outlet store, louis vuitton outlet, oakley vault, polo ralph lauren, longchamp handbags, tory burch outlet, coach outlet, prada handbags, nike free, longchamp outlet, nike air max, kate spade outlet online, louis vuitton, polo ralph lauren outlet, true religion, tiffany and co jewelry, burberry outlet online, kate spade handbags, coach outlet store online, chanel handbags, christian louboutin outlet, michael kors outlet online, prada outlet, oakley sunglasses, michael kors outlet online, ray ban sunglasses, louis vuitton handbags, cheap oakley sunglasses, nike air max, michael kors outlet

 
At 5:39 PM , Blogger Coach Factory said...

burberry pas cher, oakley pas cher, nike air max, scarpe hogan, abercrombie and fitch, sac vanessa bruno, air jordan, converse pas cher, nike air max, longchamp, nike huarache, nike roshe, louis vuitton uk, ralph lauren pas cher, lululemon, timberland, mulberry, north face, nike trainers, nike free pas cher, new balance pas cher, lacoste pas cher, nike free, nike roshe run, hermes pas cher, tn pas cher, sac michael kors, louis vuitton pas cher, ralph lauren, nike air force, chaussure louboutin, hollister, ray ban uk, barbour, guess pas cher, air max pas cher, air max, hollister, longchamp pas cher, true religion outlet, michael kors canada, north face pas cher, nike blazer pas cher, vans pas cher, michael kors uk, true religion outlet, longchamp, sac louis vuitton, louis vuitton, ray ban pas cher

 
At 5:40 PM , Blogger Coach Factory said...

babyliss pro, soccer jerseys, canada goose outlet, herve leger, birkin bag, lululemon outlet, bottega veneta, asics shoes, insanity workout, moncler, roshe run, ugg, jimmy choo shoes, ugg outlet, ferragamo shoes, canada goose outlet, canada goose uk, wedding dresses, canada goose, giuseppe zanotti, mac cosmetics, p90x workout, ugg soldes, uggs outlet, canada goose pas cher, new balance outlet, north face jackets, valentino shoes, instyler ionic styler, rolex watches, canada goose outlet, ghd, abercrombie and fitch, mcm handbags, beats headphones, soccer shoes, uggs on sale, moncler, reebok outlet, nfl jerseys, mont blanc pens, marc jacobs outlet, north face outlet, ugg boots, vans outlet, hollister, moncler, moncler outlet, chi flat iron, celine handbags

 
At 5:59 PM , Blogger ninest123 Ninest said...

ninest123 16.01
louboutin outlet, tiffany jewelry, louboutin shoes, louis vuitton outlet, tiffany and co, replica watches, ray ban sunglasses, ray ban sunglasses, prada outlet, louis vuitton outlet, louis vuitton, ugg boots, ugg boots, ugg boots, ray ban sunglasses, christian louboutin outlet, nike air max, ugg boots, oakley sunglasses, oakley sunglasses, polo ralph lauren outlet, polo ralph lauren outlet, oakley sunglasses, cheap oakley sunglasses, michael kors outlet, oakley sunglasses, uggs on sale, nike free, replica watches, michael kors outlet, longchamp, michael kors outlet, tory burch outlet, louis vuitton, nike outlet, jordan shoes, michael kors outlet, longchamp outlet, nike air max, prada handbags, longchamp outlet, burberry, burberry outlet online, chanel handbags, michael kors outlet, gucci outlet, michael kors, louis vuitton, louboutin

 
At 6:01 PM , Blogger ninest123 Ninest said...

nike air max, ralph lauren uk, michael kors, abercrombie and fitch, air force, new balance pas cher, hollister pas cher, true religion jeans, ralph lauren pas cher, longchamp pas cher, michael kors, sac guess, ray ban uk, timberland, tn pas cher, hogan, north face, mulberry, true religion jeans, michael kors, nike trainers, nike roshe, hollister, nike air max, nike huarache, lacoste pas cher, sac longchamp, air max, converse pas cher, louboutin pas cher, oakley pas cher, coach purses, true religion jeans, vans pas cher, longchamp, true religion outlet, michael kors, north face, coach outlet, nike blazer, lululemon, vanessa bruno, nike air max, nike roshe run, ray ban pas cher, replica handbags, burberry, nike free run uk, hermes, air jordan pas cher, nike free

 
At 6:05 PM , Blogger ninest123 Ninest said...

beats by dre, abercrombie and fitch, new balance, lululemon, p90x workout, mac cosmetics, instyler, iphone cases, nike air max, ghd, iphone 6s plus cases, soccer shoes, insanity workout, reebok shoes, jimmy choo shoes, mcm handbags, timberland boots, chi flat iron, nike roshe, soccer jerseys, giuseppe zanotti, nike air max, nfl jerseys, herve leger, oakley, vans, hollister, iphone 5s cases, valentino shoes, bottega veneta, north face outlet, gucci, iphone 6s cases, babyliss, wedding dresses, hollister, s5 cases, ralph lauren, baseball bats, louboutin, iphone 6 cases, converse, mont blanc, asics running shoes, celine handbags, north face outlet, ipad cases, vans shoes, birkin bag, ferragamo shoes, ray ban, iphone 6 plus cases

 
At 6:08 PM , Blogger ninest123 Ninest said...

replica watches, sac louis vuitton pas cher, toms shoes, canada goose outlet, louis vuitton, barbour, louis vuitton, canada goose, barbour jackets, bottes ugg, canada goose uk, louis vuitton, canada goose, moncler, pandora jewelry, ugg boots uk, moncler, louis vuitton, juicy couture outlet, ugg,uggs,uggs canada, thomas sabo, moncler, converse outlet, swarovski, supra shoes, swarovski crystal, montre pas cher, moncler outlet, coach outlet, doke gabbana outlet, canada goose outlet, canada goose, karen millen, canada goose, pandora charms, moncler, moncler, juicy couture outlet, pandora jewelry, marc jacobs, pandora charms, links of london, ugg pas cher, wedding dresses, lancel, doudoune canada goose, moncler, hollister, ugg,ugg australia,ugg italia, moncler
ninest123 16.01

 

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

<< Home